What the people behind Apple, BMW, and Nike told us about building iconic products
What the people behind Apple, BMW, and Nike told us about building iconic products
New subtitle:
Lessons from Conversations with Roberto that changed how we design.
When you sit across from someone who designed for Apple, or led design at BMW, or built Reebok from a kitchen into a global brand, you learn things that no book or conference will teach you.
Not frameworks. Not methodologies. Real decisions. The ones that scared them. The ones they got wrong. The ones they'd make the same way again.
That's what Conversations with Roberto has given us over the past years. Not content. Clarity.
Here are five things our guests have taught us that directly changed how we work at REFRAME.
1. The brief is almost never the real problem.
This came up in nearly every conversation. Whether it was Robert Brunner talking about early Apple products or Kevin Bethune describing his time at Nike, the pattern was the same: the best work started when someone had the courage to question the brief itself. Not to be difficult. But because the stated problem was usually a symptom of something deeper.
We apply this in every project now. Before we sketch, we interrogate. What's the real tension? What's the question nobody in the room is asking? That first conversation usually changes the direction of the entire project.
2. Iconic products lose features. They don't gain them.
Guy Kawasaki said something that stuck with us: the most important decisions are about what you choose not to do. This aligns perfectly with how we think about design. The instinct in most companies is to add. More features, more options, more configurations. But the products that last, the ones that define a category, almost always have less.
3. Design must speak the language of business.
Kevin Bethune went from nuclear engineering to Nike to BCG. His point was clear: if designers want to shape decisions, they need to understand revenue models, margin structures, and competitive strategy. Not to become business people, but to earn a seat at the table where direction is set.
This is why we don't just deliver designs. We frame every recommendation in terms of business impact. Not because we're trying to impress. Because that's how decisions actually get made.
4. Long-term partnerships beat one-off projects.
Joe Foster didn't build Reebok with agencies. He built it with people he trusted over decades. Chris Bangle's best work at BMW happened deep into his tenure, when the trust was high enough to take real risks. The pattern is consistent: the most transformative design work happens in year three of a relationship, not week three.
That's why we optimize for partnerships, not projects. The best results come when we know the business well enough to challenge it honestly.
5. Nobody remembers safe work.
This was the thread that ran through every conversation. The work people remember, the products that changed industries, the brands that lasted, none of them played it safe. They all had a moment where someone said: "This might not work, but it's right."
That's the energy we try to bring to every project. Not recklessness. Conviction.
These conversations don't just make for good episodes. They make us better designers. And they make the work we do for our clients sharper, braver, and more grounded in what actually works at the highest level.
→ Listen to Conversations with Roberto on [Apple Podcasts] or [Spotify]
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